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Quote of the Day |
"It was so unified. I didn't think the falloff would be so drastic." |
~ Marie-Ange Murekatete, an avid Obama supporter during the presidential election season, saying many campaign supporters have lost the hope and energy they proclaimed just over a year ago.
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| Nuking Iran, the Edge of Everything |
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| Kent Steadman |
 Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 6:49 pm Post subject: Nuking Iran, the Edge of Everything
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Nester
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 732
Location: http://cyberspaceorbit.com/ |
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| lightstream |
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:27 pm Post subject: Nuking Iran, the Edge of Everything
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tRiCkStEr
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 12805
Age: 60  Capricorn
Location: far left |
Thanks Kent... it's hard to imagine a generation has arisen that doesn't know the horrors of nuclear weapons. The talk about using bunker buster nukes on Iran is serious and should be launching an urgent world debate on the use of nukes for any purpose. The military has scenarios they call an "integrated battlefield" which involves using the new "tactical" nuclear weapons. Iran seems to be getting prepared to be tha test case for such a scenario.
It's tragic we could have done such a poor job of honoring the lives lost in WWII or the lessons bought with so much bloodshed. We actually have such a severe disconnect with the reality us old folks grew up with that much of the world today thinks nuclear weapons are cool and look forward to their use. Movies and video games have taught that the "good guy" is the one who shoots first and has the biggest weapons.
Spread the seeds we've forgotten to sow. We need to teach our children to abhor these weapons and the world their use would introduce before the desperate reality becomes the teacher.
_________________
Non Violence is the only weapon we have they cannot out-perform with one of their own.
Most people's perceptions are not their own.
Obama needs us just as much as Mrs Palin needs Daffy Duck. |
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| Motus |
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject: Nuking Iran, the Edge of Everything
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High Flier
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 6642 |
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| Indiamoss |
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: Nuking Iran, the Edge of Everything
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High Flier
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 3085
Location: By the Big Apple |
...statistics from all over the world kept indicating that radiation was the dominant factor in these worldwide changes of mortality trends.
It made no difference what the social or economic system was, nor how much medical care was available, as in the very different cases of the Netherlands versus Chile.
It made no difference whether infant mortality was high or low to begin with, as in Mississippi versus Sweden.
It did not matter whether there was any air pollution, or what the genetic, cultural, or dietary differences were.
There was only one way to explain these worldwide, synchronous, and totally unexpected changes that did not stop at any national boundaries nor at the edges of the seas.
Only the introduction of some new and enormously powerful biological agent on a worldwide scale could produce such sudden rises in death rates that could almost be termed epidemics.
And this new agent clearly seemed to be the fallout that had been released into the atmosphere in quantities equivalent to tens of millions of pounds of radium, the most powerful biological poisons yet created by man, circling the world in a matter of a few weeks and attacking mainly the weakest in every living species -- the developing young and the very old.
http://www.ratical.org/radiation/SecretFallout/index.html
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"And what is the suppression of knowledge and freedom, if not "barbarism"?"~ Keith Olbermann |
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| Indiamoss |
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject: Nuking Iran, the Edge of Everything
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High Flier
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 3085
Location: By the Big Apple |
The Union of Concerned Scientists from MIT has an animation to watch -
they have been saying for years that the bunker buster bombs won't work.
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_security/nuclear_weapons/
Under CONTENTS (on the right), click on nuclear bunker buster animation
ENORMOUS amounts of fallout are produced with these weapons of mass destruction.
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"And what is the suppression of knowledge and freedom, if not "barbarism"?"~ Keith Olbermann |
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| Indiamoss |
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject: Nuking Iran, the Edge of Everything
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High Flier
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 3085
Location: By the Big Apple |
Technical realities:
According to several recent scientific studies, RNEP would not be effective at destroying many underground targets, and its use could result in the death of millions of people.[2]
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RNEP would produce tremendous radioactive fallout: A nuclear earth penetrator cannot penetrate deep enough to contain the nuclear fallout. Even the strongest casing will crush itself by the time it penetrates 10-30 feet into rock or concrete. For comparison, even a one-kiloton nuclear warhead (less than 1/10th as powerful as the Hiroshima bomb) must be buried at least 200-300 feet to contain its radioactive fallout.[3] The high yield RNEP will produce tremendous fallout that will drift for more than a thousand miles downwind. As, Linton Brooks, the head of the National Nuclear Security Administration told Congress in April, "the laws of physics will [never allow a bomb to penetrate] far enough to trap all fallout. This is a nuclear weapon that is going to be hugely destructive over a large area" if it goes off underground.
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RNEP could kill millions of people: A simulation of RNEP used against the Esfahan nuclear facility in Iran, using the software developed for the Pentagon, showed that 3 million people would be killed by radiation within 2 weeks of the explosion, and 35 million people in Afghanistan, Pakistan and India would be exposed to increased levels of cancer-causing radiation
UCS
**I understand that most of you don't want to talk about this or discuss it.
I understand that you are afraid to even think about it.
But not facing the sickening scenarios being contemplated by the mofos in the black house won't make the issue go away.
We must do everything we can to try to stop this from happening.
_________________
"And what is the suppression of knowledge and freedom, if not "barbarism"?"~ Keith Olbermann |
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| Kent Steadman |
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:03 pm Post subject: Nuking Iran, the Edge of Everything
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Nester
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 732
Location: http://cyberspaceorbit.com/ |
Even Before the bomb and the hundreds of atmospheric tests, before Nagasaki, America nuked itself first:
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In February 1986, officials at the Department of Energy responded to requests from activists by releasing 19,000 pages of documents on the early operations of the world's first plutonium factory, at Hanford, Washington. Combing through these documents, reporters and citizens found references to an event cryptically named the "Green Run," in which radioactive material was deliberately released into the air at Hanford in December 1949.[1]
In the aftermath of the public discovery of the Green Run, Senator John Glenn asked the General Accounting Office, the investigative arm of Congress, to find out if there were other instances in which radioactivity had been intentionally released into the environment without informing the surrounding community. In 1993, the GAO reported twelve more instances of such secret intentional releases.[2]
Following additonal research by the DOD and DOE, the number of secret intentional releases has expanded to several hundred, conducted between 1944 and the 1960s. At the Army's Dugway Proving Ground in Utah, dozens of intentional releases were conducted in an effort to develop radiological weapons, some in tests of prototype cluster bombs, others using different means of dispersal; at Bayo Canyon in New Mexico, on the AEC's Los Alamos site, researchers detonated nearly 250 devices, which contained radiolanthanum (RaLa) as a source of radiation to measure the degree of compression and symmetry of the implosion used to trigger the atomic bomb. Other intentional releases were not classified, although not all were made known to the public in advance. At AEC sites in Nevada and Idaho, radioactive materials were released in tests of the safety of bombs, nuclear reactors, and proposed nuclear rockets and airplanes; in still other cases, small quantities of radioactive material were released in and around AEC facilities and in the Alaskan wilderness to determine the pathways such material follows in the environment.[3] Public witnesses from several of these communities told the Committee that they remain deeply disturbed by these releases, wondering whether there is still more information about the secret releases in their communities that they do not know and how much will, at this late date, be impossible to reconstruct.
http://www.eh.doe.gov/ohre/roadmap/achre/chap11_1.html
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RW=Radiation Weapons
3 October 1949
IN REPLY REFER TO:
CMIWR-SP 322/61
SUBJECT: Pubic Release on RW Tests at Dugway Proving Ground
TO: Director of Logistics
General Staff, U.S. Army
Washington 25, D. C.
1. It is the opinion of the Chemical Corps that a public
release of some type should be made relative to the forthcoming tests
of RW munitions at Dugway Proving Ground, Tooele, Utah, starting
18 October 1949.
2. A properly worded statement by the Department of the
Army seems preferable to the sometimes irresponsible scare stories
emanating from poorly informed reporters. A peacetime operation of
this type will probably draw public notice sooner or later
regardless of the security procedures adopted. The territory being
used for the tests is being surveyed continually by prospectors for
radioactive ore, so that an unusual amount of radioactivity found
by such prospectors would certainly draw attention to the area.
3. Dr. Joseph G. Hamilton, Chairman of the RW Test Safety
Panel, has indicated that he thinks a public release on the RW
munitions tests should be made. He has suggested that the release
state that tests with radioactive materials will be conducted at
Dugway and that the purpose of these tests is to obtain
decontamination data for use in preparing defensive doctrine.
4. It is understood that the Committee on Atomic Energy
of the RDB, in a meeting during May 1949, considered an agenda item
containing a draft of a letter to the Secretary of Defense which
recommended a release on the general RW program. It is further
understood that this meeting overruled the desirability of such a
letter to the Secretary.
5. The enclosed draft of a public release on tests to be
conducted at Dugway has been written in the vein suggested by
Dr. Hamilton. There is no reference to the general RW program or
to the use of radioactive materials in the Dugway area for the
purpose of formulating defensive doctrine. This type of release
should provide sufficient information to satisfy the curious who
might hear of the tests and should quell any fears for individual
safety that could arise from inopportune stories.
6. A decision on the desirability of a release such as that
enclosed is requested.
FOR THE ACTING CHIEF, CHEMICAL CORPS:
/s/ WILLIAM M. CREASY
Colonel, CM1 C
Chief, Cm1 C Res & Eng. Div
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| Publius |
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:15 am Post subject: Nuking Iran, the Edge of Everything
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tRiCkStEr
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 10661
Age: 52  Aries
Location: Couer des miracles |
Kent, you must know the story of Port Chicago where the Naval Weapons Station is in Northern California. That was a live exercise to demonstrate capacity against ships at sea. It was not munitions mishandling by the black sailors.
_________________
I have a different idea of a universal. It is of a universal rich with all that is particular, rich with all the particulars there are, the deepening of each particular, the coexistence of them all.
Aime Cesaire |
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| Lascar |
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:08 am Post subject: Nuking Iran, the Edge of Everything
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Nester
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 753
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We will nuke Iran to prevent the development of nuclear weapons. The question is, "Does intelligent life exist on earth and if so, in what form?"
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The age of wisdom begins when you discover that 80% of what you knew for sure is wrong and the other 20% is iffy. |
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| Joe Kidd |
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:15 am Post subject: Nuking Iran, the Edge of Everything
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Airborne
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1351
Age: 50  Gemini
Location: USA
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And we haven't even touched on the subject of Depleted Uranium being used like candy in artillery shells.
We have polluted the hell out of Iraq with these weapons, and many of our own soldiers are being continually contaminated.
Joe
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